Comment On Incredibly Accessible

the real wtf is that these are wtf's

CAPTCHA: craaazy

It took me a minute to figure out why #1 is a WTF. Clearly, I haven't had my morning coffee yet.

The brain no understand!

Doh!

Those WTFs aren't exactly front page material.
About the first one, I thought "Hey that's actually nice.... oh wait."

Because I realized it was actually pointless since deaf people can most likely read.

signed for the hard of reading

Now all we need is a text-to-speech plugin for a web browser that understands ASL...

It's interesting that the Signing woman is only on the front page for one paragraph and on the tab Deaf Community Homepage. (As far as I can tell..) Looks like all those deaf people can't access the rest of the website.

The West Midlands Fire Service homepage was quite funny but it was not all unlogic considering that clicking her takes you the Deaf Community Homepage.

And now for the blind:

KEVEN SLEDGLEY WAS IMPRESSED WITH HOW ACCESSIBLE...

codemonkey was quicker than me on that one, I was checking the wmfs homepage when he was adding his comment, sorry about that.

My ASL is rusty, but I think what she is signing is "If you are blind, please read the instructions for vision disabled individuals. If you are deaf, please call 555-7734 and speak to Terri - she will be happy to read the web pages to you."

Most of it the unlogic

larskris:

The West Midlands Fire Service homepage was quite funny but it was not all unlogic considering that clicking her takes you the Deaf Community Homepage.

Those WTFs aren't exactly front page material.
About the first one, I thought "Hey that's actually nice.... oh wait."

Because I realized it was actually pointless since deaf people can most likely read.

people can most likely see too but there are still sites designed for screen readers.

we should all be thinking of the deaf illiterate people when we design our next site

ViciousPsicle:

It took me a minute to figure out why #1 is a WTF. Clearly, I haven't had my morning coffee yet.

I had to watch her sign it out a few times (clicked on the link) before I realized what the problem was.

Best part... she points to the click here at the end!

Many sign language 'speakers' do not read English as a first language. It's analogous to publishing the description in English and Welsh.

I don't know what the percentage is, but I absorbed that fact from an article describing an animated CG human you can license for signing in various sign language dialects on websites. So presumably they did some market research.

The second and the others are funny, but the first one hurts my brain. God, why? Just... Why?

The first one is not actually a WTF. Sign language is not just English communicated in signs - it's a totally different language, with it's own grammar and vocabulary. So although deaf people are likely to be able to read English, it's still nice to have someone speak to them in their "native" tongue.

#1 is not really a WTF at all.

BSL is not a literal interpretation of English (or any language) - it's actually a language in it's own right with a very different syntax.

For many deaf people, written English is actually a second language.

Captcha: I'm blind you arrogant...

No driver select. The OS not support. The pig leave. No quack.

That ain't ASL, that's BSL... British Sign Language. Anyhow I'm deaf in the US and I can barely follow along, I've visited there before and know a little of their signing. What some of you don't know is that sign language is a totally different language than the spoken language of the area so ASL (American Sign Language) isn't at all like English, same with most of the rest of the world. There are places however where the sign language has been forced to conform to the spoken language, but it's awkward since it doesn't match a visual language and it's "audiocentric" (hehe).

Also for many deaf, the local language is difficult to understand since it's taught phonetically and it's difficult to grasp a spoken language having never heard it before. Many deaf are around a fourth grade reading level, although some have excellent reading skills. I actually work as a text to sign interpreter for things like driving tests and CPR classes. That way the test is only testing their knowledge of the subject and not testing them on their english proficiency.

Martin:

#1 is not really a WTF at all.

BSL is not a literal interpretation of English (or any language) - it's actually a language in it's own right with a very different syntax.

I don't know anything about BSL, but at least ASL is a lot closer to French than it is to English.

InstallShield already successfully to installed uhm the Iraq and other such and countries. I think we should if you have been plugged cable on PC before run this setup education system uhm and like they are less fortunate in Africa.

Thanks miss, thanks very much you for the informations sent you us.


Translate tools are a weak attempt at solving the language barrier.

Just put a sentence in Google Translate.. English to ??? then convert back... you can get some real wacko translations.

Mmmm tacos.

Don.:

That ain't ASL, that's BSL... British Sign Language. Anyhow I'm deaf in the US and I can barely follow along, I've visited there before and know a little of their signing. What some of you don't know is that sign language is a totally different language than the spoken language of the area so ASL (American Sign Language) isn't at all like English, same with most of the rest of the world. There are places however where the sign language has been forced to conform to the spoken language, but it's awkward since it doesn't match a visual language and it's "audiocentric" (hehe).

Also for many deaf, the local language is difficult to understand since it's taught phonetically and it's difficult to grasp a spoken language having never heard it before. Many deaf are around a fourth grade reading level, although some have excellent reading skills. I actually work as a text to sign interpreter for things like driving tests and CPR classes. That way the test is only testing their knowledge of the subject and not testing them on their english proficiency.

I happen to be (mostly) deaf - how do you expect me to read your post without someone signing it for me !?

ViciousPsicle:

It took me a minute to figure out why #1 is a WTF. Clearly, I haven't had my morning coffee yet.

And yet whilst to those of full faculties it may seem a WTF, it may not in fact be one.

I (with full hearing) studied for British Sign Language Level 1 a few years ago, and also learnt that for many profoundly deaf people who are brought up in a signing environment, written English is very hard to understand. BSL *is not* English, it's more of a symbolic language. Therefore, just as there are translations on many sites (bbc/royalmail) for Welsh, this site is attempting to be even-more accessible by offering this video.

It is still a little odd though! The question remains however, do they have a sound-bite of the page's text for the blind surfer?

Daniel Pope:

Many sign language 'speakers' do not read English as a first language. It's analogous to publishing the description in English and Welsh.

I don't know what the percentage is, but I absorbed that fact from an article describing an animated CG human you can license for signing in various sign language dialects on websites. So presumably they did some market research.

Living as I do in the West Midlands, I should point out that something like 10% to 20% of the population do not speak English as a first language. (And that's excluding the recent influx of Eastern Europeans.)

So my thought process went:
1) "Nothing wrong with this..."
2) "Oh, wait ... deaf, not blind..."
3) "... but Daniel Pope is absolutely correct."

Better Than Success? Do we have a first here?

(Or maybe "Correct'd")

"... Matt's is still trying to figure out what his GPS driver installer ..."

This is a total Sucks-cess.

ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US

real_aardvark:

Living as I do in the West Midlands, I should point out that something like 10% to 20% of the population do not speak English as a first language.

... but they understand sign language? I don't know about you, but if 10-20% of my target audience is unlikely to understand English, my first thought wouldn't be "hey, let's try sign language!" Still a WTF.

I was fire gazing on this website when I came across this...

I wonder if this was this intenional?

Anonymous Howard:

real_aardvark:

Living as I do in the West Midlands, I should point out that something like 10% to 20% of the population do not speak English as a first language.

... but they understand sign language? I don't know about you, but if 10-20% of my target audience is unlikely to understand English, my first thought wouldn't be "hey, let's try sign language!" Still a WTF.

True: I stand corrected. Mind you, it's a brave effort -- at least the 0.1% of the local population who are both deaf and of foreign descent are in the loop.

Perhaps it's a piece of social engineering to encourage people to learn sign language? The next logical step would be to run the English text through the "No Quack" engine...

Don.:

... Anyhow I'm deaf in the US ...

Can you hear when you leave the states? Did the Patriot Act allow them to take away your right to hear?

Thomas:

My ASL is rusty, but I think what she is signing is "If you are blind, please read the instructions for vision disabled individuals. If you are deaf, please call 555-7734 and speak to Terri - she will be happy to read the web pages to you."

If that's the case, then true WTF is that the video is of the woman signing instead of her screaming WTF at the people asking her to do the video...

Could anyone else get sound for the video? I think something is wrong with it.

OMFG we distribute the PL-2003 USB-to-Serial driver and the device it is used with at work! (Hey it was cheap but works, and we're already exceeding the target product cost)

I had to call this very installer from my own, to integrate it into the install process. I then had to explain why we appeared to have such terrible English in our installer. That part os not from OUR installer dammit!

OMFG we distribute the PL-2003 USB-to-Serial driver and the device it is used with at work! (Hey it was cheap but works, and we're already exceeding the target product cost)

I had to call this very installer from my own, to integrate it into the install process. I then had to explain why we appeared to have such terrible English in our installer. That part os not from OUR installer dammit!

Reading these comments I'm surprised to learn that a lot of deaf people aren't taught to read well. Why is that? This seems like a major disadvantage, yet it's something I would have thought they could do. If I was deaf you bet I would be learning how to read normal English. I could be missing something (and probably am, so let me know) but it doesn't seem like it'd be that hard to teach someone to read English (or whatever your native tongue is) once you've taught them sign language. In fact, I would think learning to read is actually MORE important than sign language.

OMGWTF is this last UI :-O

CAPTCHA: doom

Alex G.:

Those WTFs aren't exactly front page material.
About the first one, I thought "Hey that's actually nice.... oh wait."

Because I realized it was actually pointless since deaf people can most likely read.

Figured that out by yourself, did you?

SkittlesAreYum:

Reading these comments I'm surprised to learn that a lot of deaf people aren't taught to read well. Why is that? This seems like a major disadvantage, yet it's something I would have thought they could do. If I was deaf you bet I would be learning how to read normal English. I could be missing something (and probably am, so let me know) but it doesn't seem like it'd be that hard to teach someone to read English (or whatever your native tongue is) once you've taught them sign language. In fact, I would think learning to read is actually MORE important than sign language.

Actually, that was the prevailing view about 30-40 years ago. But think of it this way... For hearing people, you learn to speak and listen first, and then you learn how to read. Deaf people learn signing first, instead. Then, because reading English is based on the spoken English, they are at a disadvantage for learning how to read English.

ViciousPsicle:

It took me a minute to figure out why #1 is a WTF. Clearly, I haven't had my morning coffee yet.

In fact, I thought it was a really impressive example of accessibility, which made the eventual spit-take all the more awesome.

Being a fire station website, they should use smoke signals.

WeatherGod:

SkittlesAreYum:

Reading these comments I'm surprised to learn that a lot of deaf people aren't taught to read well. Why is that? This seems like a major disadvantage, yet it's something I would have thought they could do. If I was deaf you bet I would be learning how to read normal English. I could be missing something (and probably am, so let me know) but it doesn't seem like it'd be that hard to teach someone to read English (or whatever your native tongue is) once you've taught them sign language. In fact, I would think learning to read is actually MORE important than sign language.

Actually, that was the prevailing view about 30-40 years ago. But think of it this way... For hearing people, you learn to speak and listen first, and then you learn how to read. Deaf people learn signing first, instead. Then, because reading English is based on the spoken English, they are at a disadvantage for learning how to read English.

I can see how it would be harder than normal, but I would think it's still doable. You may not be able to directly correlate it with the way you talk, but in that case it's kind of like learning a foreign language.

At any rate, the disadvantage to not being able to read would make it so I would definitely want to learn to read if I were deaf. How will you get a job? I can think of a lot of jobs a deaf person could easily do without many accessibility requirements, but they'd have to be able to read.

Not to make this contentious, but what's next? An audio file that reads a web page out loud, for people that are illiterate?

sazoo:

It is still a little odd though! The question remains however, do they have a sound-bite of the page's text for the blind surfer?

Blind surfers tend to come with their own text-to-speech utilities (otherwise the web is a pretty boring place for them). These utilities can read almost all of the text as long as the web site doesn't use Javascript or images, although tables are pretty painful to listen to, and a lot of sites end up speaking minutes of ads before any of their page content due to the way the grids are laid out.

Now, if you really want to boil your brain, point a text-to-speech utility at a major blog site with an RSS feed, create audio files and put them on your mp3 player. It sounds like Steven Hawking on acid...

I take it that the U.S. has a different standard as to what qualifies as deaf.

The same way I typed it, using braille!

I just don't like the phrase "American" since there's two whole continents that could describe. Clearly this is an international audience so I thought I'd go all P.C. and make myself look like a weirdo.

ViciousPsicle:

It took me a minute to figure out why #1 is a WTF. Clearly, I haven't had my morning coffee yet.

Yeah, that's what I came in to say too. Good WTF, IMHO.

Martin:

#1 is not really a WTF at all.

BSL is not a literal interpretation of English (or any language) - it's actually a language in it's own right with a very different syntax.

Yeah, but why not use Written ASL? or a more technically usable alternative

Addendum (2007-10-29 16:49):
I just noticed the BSL - but i'm sure the same concept would apply

Random832:

Martin:

#1 is not really a WTF at all.

BSL is not a literal interpretation of English (or any language) - it's actually a language in it's own right with a very different syntax.

Yeah, but why not use Written ASL? or a more technically usable alternative

Addendum (2007-10-29 16:49):
I just noticed the BSL - but i'm sure the same concept would apply

Unfortunately SignWriting is not popular. It can write any signed language, but I would say only about 1% of people who know sign language know SignWriting. It is virtually unknown. More people speak International Sign Language (think Esperanto) than know SignWriting.

As for writing in the word order of the signed language, this is more a gimmick than anything else. Deaf people don't usually communicate with each other that way.

I was rather surprised that so many people couldn't figure out why there was sign language on the site. It's exactly the same as offering Spanish - simply an option for people who prefer to view it in their native language. Perhaps they should also have used Welsh, if so many people use Welsh. But at least they covered one language that's used by some people in the area.

As for accessibility for the blind, this page already has that taken care of. They have navigation up top as it should be, and they have a link to the Text Only version which is designed for screen readers.

So, the real WTF is all those subtitles on DVDs that aren't much help to the majority of deaf people, who can't read well enough to keep up?

Still, literacy rates amongst people who don't even have deafness to make life difficult for them isn't quite 100%


(Also, for those not absolutely thrilled by today's post, I believe Alex will be more than happy to refund you ever last cent that you paid for the pleasure of having his personal guarantee of entertainment. If you didn't actually pay him to entertain you then would you please take your complaints and shove them in the appropriate location, should you be able to extract your head for long enough.)